Note:
This
summary
only
contains
what
I
thought
to
be
significant,
interesting
and/or
funny.
--
Hyperion
Original
agenda:
-
Discusions,
'long
winded
design
discussions'
are
not
happening
in
9fans
as
hoped
-
Future
of
Plan
9
-
Unix/Linux
version
of
auth
server
-
tony_t
-
Plan
B
-
nemo
-
9P
Reliability
Project
Status
-
Gorka/ericvh
-
Jim
Getty's
SNAP
vision
-
ericvh
-
Propaganda
efforts
and
documentation
issues
-
uriel
-
future
9con(s)
-
uriel
-
Installer
plans/work(problems
with
lack
of
testing...)
9P RELIABILITY PROJECT STATUS -- ERICVH
-
Gorka
has
completed
his
initial
port
of
Russ'
recover
application
to
the
current
distribution.
It
allows
one
to
recover
a
session
that
is
lost
due
to
network
error,
server
reboot,
etc.
-
It
also
has
some
functionality
to
support
failing
over
to
alternate
servers
(assuming
some
sort
of
mirroring
of
resources)
-
but
we
haven't
tested
that
much.
-
It
works
under
both
Plan
9
native
and
Plan
9
Ports.
We
are
currently
putting
the
finishing
touches
on
a
paper
describing
how
it
works
and
then
we'll
release
to
sources
and
p9p.
Downside
is
it
incurs
about
a
2x
performance
penalty
on
loopback
under
Plan
9
and
8x
penalty
under
p9p
on
Linux.
This
overhead
is
likely
less
visible
on
higher
latency
connections
than
loopback.
The
only
way
around
the
overhead
would
be
to
push
the
recovery
code
inside
the
kernel
instead
of
providing
it
as
a
user
application.
-
Axel
asked
if
the
paper
discusses
the
resason
of
the
performance
penalty?
Eric
said
it
should
and
the
reason
is
copy
overhead.
The
extra
overhead
on
p9p
under
Linux
is
inefficient
threads.
-
Eric
said
it's
actually
an
interposer
for
9p.
So
instead
of
srv sources.cs.bell-labs.com
you
recover sources.cs.bell-labs.com
mount /srv/sources.cs.bell-labs.com
-
Uriel
asked
what
was
required
for
having
a
fallback
server.
Eric
said
that
for
static
file
systems
it
could
be
some
sort
of
synchronous
mirror
-
Plan
B
has
some
facilities
for
this,
but
we
haven't
tried
using
them
yet.
PROPAGANDA EFFORTS AND DOCUMENTATION ISSUES -- URIEL
-
Would
be
good
to
have
some
input
on
what
direction
to
take
with
the
docs.
So
far
I
was
trying
to
put
as
much
stuff
on
the
wiki
as
I
can,
so
at
least
nothing
is
lost.
-
Vester
added
that
openness
on
best
practices
would
be
good
too.
-
Uriel
would
like
to
setup
a
mirror
of
all
papers,
ideally
on
sources.
He
also
said
that
having
a
reliable
sources
web
interface
would
be
nice,
not
being
sure
if
linking
to
9grid.de
from
the
main
wiki
is
a
great
idea,
mirrors
are
good,
but
not
as
reliable
and
uptodate
as
sources
itself.
If
sources
was
exported
over
the
web
from
it's
main
location
it
would
be
great.
-
Zimba
asked
if
there
were
a
list
of
who
is
responsible
for
what.
Uriel
explained
that
there
isn't
and
that
everyone
is
free
to
work
on
what
they
like,
coordination
has
been
traditionally
thur
9fans,
if
you
want
to
work
on
something,
just
do
it,
don't
wait
for
anyone
to
give
you
'permision'.
JIM GETTY'S SNAP VISION -- ERICVH
-
Jim
Getty's
is
pushing
his
vision
of
the
way
the
universe
should
look,
particularly
in
the
home
network
environment.
If
you
look
at
his
OLS
paper
http://google.com/search?q=getty's+snap,
you'll
see
it
looks
somewhat
familiar
-
very
much
like
the
Inferno/Plan
9
vision,
at
least
on
the
high
level.
Jim
seemed
to
be
very
open
to
Plan
9
style
ideas,
so
it
may
not
be
a
bad
carrier
to
push
Plan
9
ideas.
Plan
9
technology
seems
to
provide
a
lot
more
of
what
he
wants
than
the
alternatives
he
mentions
in
his
paper(s).
Getty's
was
pushing
"lots
of
devices
talking
to
eachother".
-
Charles
Forsyth
remarked:
He
is
Jim
Gettys,
so
that
to
get
him
interested
you
need
to
show
him
something
he
thinks
he
can't
do
or
prove
to
him
you
can
do
it
better.
PLAN B -- GORKA
-
We
are
probably
packaging
an
image
with
everything
for
September.
So
people
can
look
at
it
an
maybe
merge
whatever
they
like
into
Plan
9.
Our
idea
was
to
get
the
good
ideas
in
it
into
sources.
It
is
running
on
a
modified
version
of
the
kernel,
but
there
have
been
many
strategy
changes.
The
most
changes
which
make
it
to
sources,
the
less
we
have
to
maintain.
FUTURE 9CONS -- URIEL
-
Uriel
would
like
to
organize
a
9con
in
Madrid
this
fall
(Oct-Nov).
He
was
talking
with
Anavarro,
and
counting
on
nemo
and
his
students
to
do
most
of
the
work
(;-)).
-
Gorka
said
he
wanted
to
help
with
it.
He
could
provide
location.
He
wanted
to
actually
organize
it.
But
got
into
many
things
and
couldn't.
We
may
get
money
for
bringing
people
willing
to
give
conferences.
But
he
needs
time
to
do
the
paperwork
for
that.
-
Charles
Forsyth
was
interested
in
coming.
-
20h
said
we
will
have
a
place
in
the
hacking
center,
for
Plan
9,
on
CCC
(Chaos
Computer
Congress/Berlin
by
the
Chaos
Computer
Club
http://www.ccc.de).
CCC
will
be
on
26-31
December.
For
more
info
see
22C3.
Garbeam
and
uriel
plan
to
give
Plan
9
related
talks.
ANNOUNCE AND ADOPT AN OPEN SOURCE MODEL WITH AN OPEN CORE TEAM -- VT3
-
Vester
asked
what
do
we
want
to
do
as
a
community?
-
Hyperion
thought
we'd
all
like
to
see
such
a
model,
but
it
depended
on
the
Bell
Labs
developers.
-
Uriel
warned
that
many
people
are
happy
with
the
status
quo;
Including
Andrey,
Eric,
Axel,
Gorka.
-
20h
remarked
we
have
a
half
open
source
model,
as
you
can
take
out
the
distribution
and
publish
it
on
your
own
and
that
noone
complained
about
the
differences
of
the
9grid.de
.isos.
-
Charles
said
the
best
thing
to
show
Plan9
is
not-dead
is
to
apply
it
more,
esp.
to
do
interesting
things
(or
boring
things
in
an
interesting
way).
That's
really
why
Linux
surpassed
BSD:
hardly
because
it
was
better,
but
programmers
wrote
for
Linux.
And
to
be
most
accurate,
universities
supported
it.
-
Axel
wondered
if
it's
about
marketing.
Vester
and
XTL
agreed
it
is.
-
20h
thought
about
having
something
like
User
Mode
Linux
for
Plan
9.
-
Vester
suggested
if
we
want
to
stand
out
from
other
OSes
then
add
user
auditing
features.
This
is
what
corporations
do
to
standard
Windows
and
*ix
machines.
PLAN 9 PORT TO THE MAC MINI -- DAVID ECKHARDT (CMU)
-
What
the
students
have
runs
and
has
run
on
a
mini.
There
are
N
pieces
of
1-person-sized
work.
There
is
a
relevance
issue,
though,
given
that
G5's
don't
have
BATs
and
that
Apple
is
ditching
PPC.
INSTALLER PLANS/WORK -- URIEL
-
Uriel
thinks
that
there
is
need
to
unify
the
install/bootabe-system/floppy
to
make
testing
easier,
right
now
there
are
four
slightly
different
kernel
images
in
one
part
or
another
of
the
install
system,
and
depending
which
one
you
end
up
with
some
things
work
or
not.
-
20h
said
one
of
the
problem
is
that
the
kernel
configuration
specifies
where
to
boot
from.
-
Vester
said
network
installs
don't
work
correctly.
AFTER-CHAOS
-
Hyperion
thought
Plan
9
is
"dead"
as
a
research
OS.
He
was
very
happy
about
Plan
B
becuase
it
had
a
lot
of
new
ideas
and
research.
Plan
9
had
no
such
things
lately.
-
XTL
and
fgb
agreed
to
some
extent.
-
Axel
saw
a
link
between
what
Hyperion
said
and
Forsyth's
remark
about
being
able
to
do/show
interesting
things.
-
David
Eckhardt
thought
a
changelog
on
the
web
would
increase
sense
of
life;
And
asked
if
there
is
an
easy
way
to
partially
automate
it
by
periodically
snarfing
the
descriptive
text
of
submitted
patches?
Uriel
has
a
script
that
generates
notification
emails
when
patches
are
accpeted,
plog.
He
saw
the
problem
is
that
not
all
changes
go
through
patch(1).
-
20h
pointed
out
that
there
is
http://www.tip9ug.jp/rlog/
-
Vester
flailed
a
dead
rabbit:
No
organization,
no
infrastructure,
no
policies
nor
direction,
then
we'll
be
here
again
next
year
discussing
the
same
things.
Doing
the
same
things
and
expecting
different
results
is...
Well,
we
need
to
resolve
the
internal
issues.
-
Uriel
thinks
the
issues
won't
be
solved
because
there
is
deep
disagreements
on
the
very
existence
and
importance
of
those
issues,
too
many
people
just
don't
care.
So
the
only
way
to
change
things
is
thru
action,
we
have
to
try
as
many
things
as
possible
and
see
what
works
and
what
doesn't.
-
20h
recommended
to
get
good
looking
girls
and
a
TV
show
for
Plan
9.
-
David
asked
if
the
"mux"
M.S.
thesis
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/plan9:jmhickey-meng.pdf
should
be
on
the
"papers"
page.
He
was
partway
through
and
found
it
readable.
It
also
is
a
"liveness"
datum.
Uriel
noted
that
there
is
a
new
Papers
wiki
page
that
eventually
should
replace
the
unmaintained
static
papers
page.
PS
htfilefs -m /tmp http://www.9grid.de/plan9/plan9.iso; 9660srv; mount /srv/9660 /n/cdrom /tmp/plan9.iso;
UNIX/LINUX VERSION OF AUTH SERVER -- TONY_T
-
Skipped
becuase
tony_t
were
absent
